Were did the idea of a Pre Trib Rapture come from? This is a fare question to ask. In this study we will look at some early Church history. Where do the pre-tribulation rapture theory originated? The pre-tribulation rapture originated over in England. The theory it has all but vanished away there. But still in America the literal concept lives on, and it is at the local church level it persists strongly. Unfortunately many have swallowed the new teach “hook line and sinker.”

Morgan Edwards was born in May 9, 1722, in Trevethin Parish, Monmoughshire, Wales about 100 miles from Bristol, England. He died in 1795, long before Margaret Macdonald was ever born, and long before J.N. Darby ever developed his pre-tribulation rapture theory. In fact, the book by Morgan Edwards gives us his views on eschatology. His book was published in 1788- ever before Emmanuel Lacunza’s book was completed in manuscript from 1790.

The fact of the matter is that Edwards published the teaching of a pre-tribulation rapture long be before Margaret Macdonald and J.N.Darby. Edwards’ first pastorate was a small church in Boston England. Seven years later he became pastor of Baptist church in Cork, England. It was here he was ordained to the ministry in 1757.

Edwards then resigned from the pastorate after 10 years, and in 1771 became an itinerant evangelist helping the churches of the Southern colonies from the Philadelphia Baptist Association. Morgan Edwards in America was “one of the most important and influential Baptist leaders during the latter part of the eighteenth century.” “He is mentioned in all of the histories of Baptists in the United States.”

Edwards was highly influential in the Baptist life of America. He was the first historian of Baptists in America. Albert Henry Newman’s in his book (A History of the Baptist Church in the United States 1894). said Morgan Edwards certainly did bring “strange things” to the Baptist people in America in 1788.

Edwards believed that the “lake of fire brimstone was “on the moon”! Edwards was a literalist so far as the New Testament was concerned, but not as much as with the Old Testament. Edwards believed that Abraham looked for a real literal city. He acknowledged the Bible was the word of God, while not denying the textual difficulties.

It was believed that a fifteen year old girl in Scotland by the name of Margaret Macdonald was the originator of pre-tribulation teaching in 1830.

It was also believed that the lrvingites in England started publishing this teaching in 1830 after getting it from Margaret Macdonald. It has been published that she was the first ever to teach a pre-tribulation rapture. At any rate, it was in 1830, forty-two years after Morgan Edwards book was published, in Philadelphia Pa so we know now that she was not the originator of the pre-tribulation rapture teaching.

Morgan Edwards was the first it ever teach a pre-tribulation rapture. Edwards’ book was published in 1788. According to Edwards, the Rapture should have accursed 3 ½ years before the beginning of the Millennium in 1996. This means that the “literal rapture” should have accursed in 1993.

Well it didn’t!

From what source did Morgan Edwards get his theory of the pre-tribulation rapture, or was it something that he devised in his own mind independently of others? From statements he made, he evidently felt he was teaching something new. And who was the first to cope it from Edwards in America? Its difficult to believe that the teaching of the pre-tribulation rapture was not preached also from the various pulpits where Edwards ministered.

One doesn’t usually write a book to tell how its influential Baptist leader devised things in his own mind. Unfortunately many Christians today, don’t know anything about this historical fact and it is at the church level who is last to find out.

With the recent popularity of the Left Behind series of books and films, there has been a lot of renewed speculation about “end times” prophecies and the timing of what is popularly termed “the rapture.” This is the idea that Jesus will return to the earth and secretly take (“rapture”) all Christians while leaving the rest of humanity to suffer through a long period of turmoil in the world (called “the Great Tribulation”). Of curse you will not hear about Morgan Edwards in any of the Left Behind series of books and films.

I have heard this passage Matthew 24. 37-44 used to prove the rapture of Christians. However, the context doesn’t support this assumptions. Let’s look at it again: Matthew. 24. 37-44. But as the days of Noah were, so also will the coming of the Son of Man be. {38}For as in the days before the flood, they were eating and drinking, marrying and giving in marriage, until the day that Noah entered the ark, {39}and did not know until the flood came and took them all away, so also will the coming of the Son of Man be. {40}Then two men will be in the field: one will be taken and the other left. {41}Two women will be grinding at the mill: one will be taken and the other left. {42}Watch therefore, for you do not know what hour your Lord is coming. {43}But know this, that if the master of the house had known what hour the thief would come, he would have watched and not allowed his house to be broken into. {44}Therefore you also be ready, for the Son of Man is coming at an hour you do not expect. Noah’s flood is described in the Bible’s book of Genesis, chapters 6 through 9.

The context of this ‘taking’ and ‘leaving’ is that of the flood of Noah. This much, we all agree. But this question seems to hardly ever get asked: WHO and HOW are the ones ‘taken’ in the flood? Were they supernaturally ‘translated’ to heaven? In Matthew 24:39, notice carefully the phrase “they knew not until the flood came, and took them all away.” Who was taken away? The wicked perished in Noah flood.

Could they not have known? Yes, of course, but they DIDN’T WANT TO KNOW. While Noah was preaching, they couldn’t have cared less. Noah preached for 120 years!!! The flood came and swept the wicked away.

Secondly on board the ark? Those on the ark were saved from the judgment of god. Those ‘taken’ were the wicked ones taken in the flood. This is Jesus’ point. The ‘ark’ represents Jesus. Those in the ark (in Christ) represent Christians who denied the Old Covenant of Judaism and followed Christ. Those ‘taken’ were the apostate Jews who were destroyed by the ‘flood’ of the Roman Army, i.e., the judgment of god. This was Jesus’ point of illustration. Could these have known? Yes, of course.

Paul writes, 1 Thessalonians 5:1-4 But concerning the times and the seasons, brethren, you have no need that I should write to you. For you yourselves know perfectly that the day of the Lord so comes as a thief in the night. For when they say, “Peace and safety!” then sudden destruction comes upon them, as labor pains upon a pregnant woman. And they shall not escape. But you, brethren, are not in darkness, so that this Day should overtake you as a thief.

That day would not overtake Christians as a thief. But the wicked Jews they DIDN’T WANT TO KNOW. While Jesus was preaching, they couldn’t have cared less. The historical record bears out that the Christians fled to Pella at the first sign of the war.

The idea of a ‘rapture’ has only been around since the start of premillenial dispensationalism. That is, since the mid to late 1800′s.

“How developed our infrastructure would be, how advanced our agriculture, how vibrant our trade, and how rich our country and people if there were no graft and corruption in the government!”

“The Other Philippine History Textbook” Book 1 pg. 173 by Christine L. Diaz

http://www.facebook.com/groups/196738137099371/permalink/272881952818322/?comment_id=303570596416124&ref=notif&notif_t=like

SOURCE: http://www.bereanbiblechurch.org/transcripts/eschatology/how_to_share.htm

I grew up in the SBC, and therefore, have always believed in what is called dispensationalism. I will admit though, I believe it more on the basis of what was told to me, instead of true study of the facts found in the Bible. My journey from semi Arminianism to Calvinism started about 6 years ago, so I am seeing the same things happen within this transformation as well. I am right in the middle of this, so I cannot say I am fully amillennial and covenantal, but that is probably just a matter of time now. I first started looking into this as I noticed that all those that I respected to teach me about the truth of Scripture was in one way or another amillennial and covenantal. Not only that, but I had a couple of buddies in Josh Follansbee and David Ponter who kept hammering away at me and then David Drake entered the fray as well to challenge me. David challenged me in saying, “Dispensationalists make Israel and charts and maps the hero of the book of Revelation, instead of Christ being the center and the hero.” This hit me hard. Not only that but what was funny is that Josh actually predicted about 4 years ago that if I truly loved Scripture, I would naturally change my views. What did these guys all have in common with me? They all were in some sort dispensationalists as well before making the switch to the historical team of the total Reformed.

One of the first things that caught me off guard, and one that made me start to think was when Josh told me that the Bible records Israel as taking the land promised to them through Abraham from God. The prophecies concerning national Israel were always a big deal for me in why there was dispensations and why there was a literal 1000 year reign of Christ. Some things really started to ramp up when some reading started to happen. These were:

1. A Reading of the Bible (I started a Bible Reading plan that showed me some of the fulfillments that had literally happened for Israel)

2. Reading The Returning King by Vern Poythress which was recommended to me by David Drake

3. Reading A Case for Amillennialism by Kim Riddlebarger which was recommended by Josh Follansbee

4. Reading Biblical Studies in Final Things by William E. Cox which was recommended by David Ponter and was the clincher.

In this post, I want to simply put forth those things that have been literally fulfilled for national Israel that dispensationalists still hold out hope for in the 1000 year reign of Christ. Here are those things that have actually already been fulfilled and are over and done with:

1. The land promise to Abraham pertaining to the land of Palestine have already been literally fulfilled through Joshua. Look specifically to Joshua 11:23 and 21:43

So Joshua took the whole land, according to all that the Lord had spoken to Moses, and Joshua gave it for an inheritance to Israel according to their divisions by their tribes. Thus the land had rest from war.
Joshua 11:23

So the Lord gave Israel all the land which He had sworn to give to their fathers, and they possessed it and lived in it.
Joshua 21:43

a. The proofs that Israel became a great nation, are too numerous and well known are well documented and one doesn’t need simple biblical proof to see this fact

b. The promise that the descendants would be as numerous as the sand of the sea and the stars in the sky has been fulfilled when seeing Nehemiah 9:23:

You made their sons numerous as the stars of heaven, And You brought them into the land which You had told their fathers to enter and possess.

c. The promise to Abraham that the Messiah would include all the nations of the earth (Gen. 12:3) was fulfilled in the incarnation of Christ and the book of Acts

2. After the return from the bondage in Egypt other prophecies concerning the nation of Israel included returning to the land, rebuilding the temple and the reinstitution of sacrifices (this is where dispensationalists become close, if not full, heretics). This has already been fulfilled both historically and biblically. The temple was literally rebuilt in 516 B.C. and so the sacrificial system was also back in place. One need only read such books as Ezra, Nehemiah, Haggai and Zachariah to find that there is no need for such prophecies to be for the End Times. Remember that all the prophecies concerning the return to the land, the temple being rebuilt and the sacrificial system being reinstated were all made before 516 B.C. Since this time of fulfillment in 516 B.C. there have been no further mention of these prophecies, including Malachi and the New Testament.

3. Since the above mentioned have been fulfilled, all other prophecies were to include the New Covenant of believers which would include Gentiles into God’s people and therefore all further unfulfilled prophecies, such as the second Advent, the judgment seat, which includes the Day of the Lord, will include all believers in the Lord Jesus, not merely national Israel. This is known as the New Covenant that was prophecied by Jeremiah in Jeremiah 31:31 and will be carried out by those who believe, the church. Both Jews and Gentiles without distinction.

There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither slave nor free man, there is neither male nor female; for you are all one in Christ Jesus. And if you belong to Christ, then you are Abraham’s descendants, heirs according to promise.
Galatians 3:28-29

I have other sheep, which are not of this fold; I must bring them also, and they will hear My voice; and they will become one flock with one shepherd.
John 10:16

For these reasons, I have departed dispensationalism and have been doing much study to find what I honestly believe. This has put the right focus back in my study, which is off Israel and back to the true Israel, which is Christ. He should always be our focus and our hero in all of the Bible. When we start to cloud him with other issues, we start to fall into idolatry.

Monday, November 16, 2009

SOURCE: http://contendearnestly.blogspot.com/2009/11/my-journey-out-of-dispensationalism.html

So the Lord gave Israel all the land which He had sworn to give to their fathers, and they possessed it and lived in it.
Joshua 21:43

If Dispensdationalist are known to take the Bible LITERALLY than why do they not take these very words literally which makes it surely sound like it already happen?

——————

The Story of Fulfilment being expressed…

Neh. 9

18 Even after they had cast an image of a calf for themselves and said, “This is your God who brought you out of Egypt,” and they had committed terrible blasphemies, 19 You did not abandon them in the wilderness because of Your great compassion. During the day the pillar of cloud never turned away from them, guiding them on their journey. And during the night the pillar of fire illuminated the way they should go. 20 You sent Your good Spirit to instruct them. You did not withhold Your manna from their mouths, and You gave them water for their thirst. 21 You provided for them in the wilderness 40 years and they lacked nothing. Their clothes did not wear out, and their feet did not swell. 22 You gave them kingdoms and peoples and assigned them to be a boundary. They took possession of the land of Sihon king of Heshbon and of the land of Og king of Bashan. 23 You multiplied their descendants like the stars of heaven and brought them to the land You told their ancestors to go in and take possession [of it]. 24 So their descendants went in and possessed the land: You subdued the Canaanites who inhabited the land before them and handed their kings and the surrounding peoples over to them, to do as they pleased with them. 25 They captured fortified cities and fertile land and took possession of well-supplied houses, rock-hewn cisterns, vineyards, olive groves, and fruit trees in abundance. They ate, were filled, became prosperous, and delighted in Your great goodness. 26 But they were disobedient and rebelled against You. They flung Your law behind their backs and killed Your prophets who warned them to turn them back to You. They committed terrible blasphemies. 27 So You handed them over to their enemies, who oppressed them. In their time of distress, they cried out to You, and You heard from heaven. In Your abundant compassion You gave them deliverers, who rescued them from the power of their enemies. 28 But as soon as they had relief, they again did what was evil in Your sight. So You abandoned them to the power of their enemies, who dominated them. When they cried out to You again, You heard from heaven and rescued them many times in Your compassion.

http://xoom.tellapal.com/a/clk/4HSmBm

If PayPal is your only choice to use,
mission@worldwithoutend.info
would be the email to use

Some of the evils of the millennial doctrine.

• PreMillennialist says Christ is a created being, created at His birth–versus–Christ preexisted before the earth. Christ was created–versus–Christ made all created things. MAKES HIM BE JUST A MAN, NOT A DIVINE BEING.
• PreMillennialist says God, Christ, or the prophets did not know the Jews would reject Christ and put Him to death. It makes God be neither all knowing nor all powerful. If He were unable to restore the kingdom to Israel as He planned to then it MAKES HIS FIRST COMING A FAILURE.
• Both John the Baptist and Christ said the kingdom of Heaven is at hand. PreMillennialist says both were wrong.
• PreMillennialist says the church and the New Covenant are just an afterthought, were added to fill in unto God could set up the kingdom He was not able to at the first coming of Christ. IT MAKES THE OLD COVENANT BE SUPERIOR TO THE NEW COVENANT.
• PreMillennialist makes the death of Christ be not needed. They say it was both unplanned and unknown that Christ would be put to death; and if the Jews had not rejected Him and put Him to death, Israel would have been restored and the kingdom set up according to God’s plan. THE DEATH OF CHRIST WAS NOT IN THE PLAIN OF GOD, THEREFORE, WAS NOT NEEDED.
• There could not have been any predictions or prophecy about the suffering of Christ, the death of Christ, the resurrection of Christ, the church, the New Covenant; there could not have been any prophecy about the Millennium for we are told they were all unknown of by God and the prophets. If the kingdom had been restored to Israel as the Millennialist says God planned for it to be, there would have been no Millennium, yet they use many Old Testament passages to prove that God did know what they say He did not know.
• PreMillennialist makes Judaism superior to Christianity, and the Law with its animal sacrifices will be restored.
• PreMillennialist deny that Christ is now king and is now on the throne of David.
• Many PreMillennialist says eternal life for the saved will be on earth–versus–Eternal life in Heaven. No one will ever be in Heaven.
• Resurrected with an earthly body–versus–resurrected a spiritual being.
• Premillennial doctrine is a return to Judaism, a reestablishment of national Israel and the types and shadows of the Old Covenant, which the writer of Hebrews is warning against throughout the whole book of Hebrews.

IN BRIEF, THE PREMILLENNIAL BELIEF IS A COMPLETE REWRITE OF THE BIBLE. THE DIFFERENCES AND DISAGREEMENTS IN THE GOSPEL AND PREMILLENNIAL BELIEFS ARE SO GREAT THAT NO ONE CAN BELIEVE BOTH. The Premillennial belief is that God was unable to set up the Jewish kingdom that He had said He was going to set up, and that it was unknown to God that Israel was going to reject Christ and put Him to death. The church is something that was added that God did not plain or know about it before Christ’s rejection. THE MILLENNIAL KINGDOM WILL BE A RETURN TO OLD TESTAMENT JUDAISM, WHICH DID NOT HAVE THE ATONING BLOOD OF CHRIST.

SOURCE - http://robertwr.com/rapture.html

My response:
The answer to Talbotism’s question is found in the
answer to these seven questions:

1. “…until Christ is formed in you.” (Gal. 4:19)

The church was looking forward to when Christ would be formed
in it. But Christ was already in the church. “In what sense” then
was He later “formed” in the church?

2. “in whom the whole building, being fitted together is growing
into a holy temple in the Lord; in whom you also are being built
together into a dwelling of God in the Spirit” (Eph. 2:21,22).

The church was looking forward to when it would become God’s
“holy temple” / “dwelling.” But the church was already God’s
temple/dwelling. “In what sense” then did the church later
become God’s temple/dwelling.

3. “So that Christ may dwell in your hearts through faith….”
(Eph. 3:17)

Paul’s desire was that God would strengthen believers with might
by Christ’s Spirit in the inner man “so that Christ would dwell in
[their] hearts through faith.” But Christ was already dwelling
in believers’ hearts through faith. “In what sense” then did Christ
later dwell in believers’ hearts through faith?

4. “to whom God willed to make known what is the riches of the
glory of this mystery among the Gentiles, which is Christ in you,
the hope of glory” (Col. 1:27).

The church’s glorious hope (her expectation) was “Christ in you.”
But Christ was already in the church. “In what sense” then did
Christ later dwell in the church?

5. “And so we have the prophetic word made more sure, to
which you do well to pay attention as to a lamp shining in a
dark place, until the day dawns and the Morning Star arises
in your hearts.” (II Peter 1:19)

Believers were looking forward to “the day” when “the Morning
Star” would arise in their hearts. But the Morning Star (Jesus)
was already dwelling in their hearts. “In what sense” then did
Jesus later arise in believers’ hearts?

6. “Behold, I stand at the door and knock; if anyone hears My voice
and opens the door, I will come in to him, and will dine with him,
and he with Me” (Rev. 3:20; This promise was written to believers.).

Jesus told believers that if any one of them opened the door, He
would “come in to him, and will dine with him.” But Jesus was
already dwelling in believers and dining with them. “In what
sense” then did Jesus later dwell in believers and dine with them?

7. “…If anyone loves Me, he will keep My word; and My Father
will love him, and We will come to him, and make Our abode
with him.” (Jn. 14:23)

Only spirit-indwelt believers love Jesus. Yet Jesus said that a
time would come when the Father and the Son would make their
abode in Spirit-indwelt believers. Yet the Son was already
dwelling in Spirit-indwelt believers. “In what sense” then did
Jesus and the Father later make Their abode in Spirit-indwelt
believers?

Dave